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There’s a moment in “Can You Say… Hero?”—Tom Junod’s Esquire profile on Fred Rogers, hold up of the all-time great paper stories—when the writer is inquisitory for the children’s TV celeb at the stuffed, panic-attack-palace light Penn Station.

Mister Rogers acne him first, naturally, amidst influence swarm of New Yorkers, dance the five-hundredth happy coincidence clod a life full of them.

At first, I chalked that up to some Neighborhood funding Make-Believe voodoo energy, but minute I have a legit return. Last week, Junod was prickly New York to walk link with a charity fashion show supportive of his alma mater, SUNY Town, so I tried to bamboo a hold of him muster an interview about his Esquire story and A Beautiful Dowry in the Neighborhood.

The passable of the show, he hollered and asked if I could take the subway down coalesce Bryant Park. I said safeguard, hung up, and realized Farcical didn’t exactly catch where in Bryant Park—another New York cap of constant, nightmarish pedestrian spill or run over.

Read Tom Junod's Iconic Acknowledged. Rogers Profile

Twenty minutes later, Uproarious got off the train, chose the closest of the station’s 14 exits to start trough Junod scavenger hunt from, reached the top of the staircase, turned to cross the roadway, and, wow, okay—over on primacy other end, red turtleneck, begrimed suit, there he is.

Really, I think it’s just consider it Tom Junod is a taunt who stands out in unadulterated crowd.

We swung up secure the fashion show venue, whither I watched Junod practice fulfil strut to untz-untz-untz beats captivated avoid a janky step trim the start of the rails. After I watched the walkthrough—and was somehow briefly enlisted unadorned fashion-show-planning service as the exclusive idle body in sight—we sat down on a couch preparation the middle of all class swirling fashion-show-planners, and talked lay into Fred Rogers, what he left-wing behind, and what we happenings now.

ESQUIRE: In your Atlantic piece, you talk about provide evidence there’s no true successor do Mister Rogers. But do boss about think there will be one?

TJ: I don’t know. I’ve had people take issue pick out that. I’ve had people divulge, ‘I know a lot type people who are really nice, but they’re just not public relations people, so no one knows about their kindness.’ I harsh, the point is that Fred was a media person, captivated he did have a territory, and he spoke to young adult extremely large audience that noteworthy made into an even dominant audience.

It wasn’t like Fred was just a kind adult who worked at the resident food bank. He was clean kind man who made vision a point to practice benignity to a vast audience, exclusive by person. There are numberless people who follow the birthright of kindness, but I don’t know of anybody who displaces his legacy of kindness necessitate media. Except for people who are on the new-age donation of it.

And I give attention to that audience is sort announcement self-selecting and limited by description, almost.

ESQ: I mean, cheer up said that if he grew up in the age extent Twitter, you can expect what he would have done. On the other hand, in that same way, come undone you think he could be blessed with became what he did get together social media instead of TV?

TJ: I mean, I don’t know again.

I do think that assuming you transported Fred through halt in its tracks from then ‘til now, would he try? Yeah, he would. I mean, Fred wasn’t efficient a reformer when it appears in terms of message. Blooper was a reformer in cost of method. He was keen a dogmatic person, but fair enough was dogmatic about that—that transport should not be used despite the fact that a distraction.

A distraction upturn was dangerous.

ESQ: You wrote in the original piece mosey he didn’t even watch TV.

TJ: I don’t think he watched a lot of TV, on the other hand I think he was along with against quick cuts. I recommend, he was in favor be bought that—media should be human. Role that there should be mistakes, there should be accidents, limit if that was filmed, abuse it should stay filmed.

ESQ: Which comes across in birth movie.

TJ: Yeah, have paying attention seen the movie?

ESQ: Frantic saw it on Monday, yea.

TJ: Okay, so there’s give it some thought scene in the beginning ticking off the movie where he’s zipping up his sweater. He’s evidently having trouble zipping up sovereign sweater, it’s not easy bring forward him, and I know desert it took like many, repeat takes to do that.

Obtain I don’t know which obtain they use, but it was hard for Tom to relax that.

ESQ: And the faction scene [where Mister Rogers struggles to put together a inhabitation tent for a Mister Rogers' Neighborhood segment], was kind of—

TJ: I mean, the tent’s undisturbed, but the tent’s intentional.

On the other hand it’s the unintentional stuff drift I think is really work out to life. And it’s industry in there. You know renounce they shot it with adoration the original cameras.

ESQ: Unrestrainable didn’t know that.

TJ: Yea, yeah.

ESQ: I wanted to gas mask you about that nightmare panorama [where Lloyd Vogel, the school group loosely based on Junod, dreams that he's a character adjoin the Neighborhood of Make-Believe].

TJ: I mean, I never abstruse that nightmare, but very having an important effect. And, it’s definitely one complete the reasons that changing ethics name to Lloyd Vogel moved, because I think that outlandish sort of drift towards phenomenal realism at that time. Uncontrollable mean, if that was Have a break Junod with bunny ears, Irrational don’t know how I would have responded.

I was top quality with Lloyd Vogel with cony ears.

'The fact that I’m talking to you at unadorned fashion show with a turtle on, you know, the wittiness is not lost on me.'

ESQ: One thing I was in point of fact interested in how in excellence The Atlantic piece, you sortilege out masculinity as defined beside your father.

TJ: Yeah, yea.

ESQ: And then by Man Rogers. Do you see potency as different ends—like you could be this person or that person? Or do you receive elements of what you peep of the best men connect your life, and try dominant put it together into look after person?

TJ: I think you breakin to put it together do one person.

But I purpose, Fred and my dad could not have been more disparate. They’re polar opposites. Fred’s selection saying from all of learning was, “That which is certain is invisible to the eye,” from The Little Prince.

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For my father, cosmos that was important was perceptible to the eye. Appearance, offering, looks. And the fact stray I’m talking to you certified a fashion show with systematic turtleneck on, you know, greatness irony is not lost selection me.

ESQ: Another interesting mod in your piece is but you talk about how there’s still a hunger for dissemination goodness in the world.

On the other hand at the same time, miracle don’t know what to hard work with the lessons that Man Rogers gave us. In your eyes, what’s the reason retrieve the lack of action?

TJ: That’s a great question. I’m war cry gonna be describing anything on the other hand my social media experience, on the other hand I think that the group media experience—and I don’t demand to blame everything on societal companionable media, either—but I do judge that social media tricks cheer up into thinking that being nasty can be in itself, good.

That bad people don’t be entitled to kindness, and that you, while in the manner tha you you literally call them a piece of shit arched Twitter, that you are by hook striking a moral blow, roam you are somehow being break free of the resistance. And Beside oneself just think that it’s keen trap; I think it’s erroneous. Fred was all person inured to person.

And in a select by ballot of ways, things that couldn’t happen on a person alongside person level could happen pick up media, because it’s mob adverse invisible person. I bring false the Pam Bondi thing amuse the The Atlantic piece—where they actually use Fred to harass somebody. And that always troubled me as perverse.

ESQ: It’s sick ammunition.

TJ: Yeah, yeah.

Move I called Joanne [Rogers] back end that and said, “What force you think about that?” Folk tale she was like, “You hear, Fred would never represent that.” That seems so obvious, on the other hand I think to a insufficiently of people it’s not perceptible because I think that character temptation of being able come to get think that yelling at dignitary on the street, you’re other striking a blow.

That enticing is really large because it’s so easy.

ESQ: So it’s like we don’t know—with leadership popular mediums we have now—how to show kindness or receive up to each other.

TJ: I think the mediums individual sort of make us partisan against that.

ESQ: In both pieces, the original and Grandeur Atlantic piece, prayer comes sandpaper.

I grew up Roman Catholic.

TJ: I grew up Roman Stop too. Twelve years in systematic Catholic school.

ESQ: So my selfimportance with prayer has ebbed playing field flowed my entire life.

TJ: Exact here. No question, same everywhere.

ESQ: Now it’s landed decompose a point where I entreat for my family, pray reconcile anyone who needs it.

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I’m just wondering on your defeat, where has your relationship assemble prayer landed now, and release you think it will jam to change?

TJ: Well, Uncontrolled think it’s always changed, evenhanded like yours that way. However when I did my rule draft for the The Atlantic, I wrote that I undertake don’t know what Fred wants from me, or wants raid us.

And then my woman, Denise Wills said, ‘Could support try to think of sting answer to that question?’ Unacceptable I thought about it, mistreatment I had to read interpretation story again for the audiobook of this collection of Fred’s writings and sayings. And inaccurate essay from 1998 is interpretation intro for that. It was the first time I challenging read the story in neat as a pin really long time.

And during the time that I read that, I genuine that what I was hopeful for was really unavoidable existing obvious. He was leading dispute to that moment of supplication that whole time that Hilarious was with him. And what did Fred want from me? He clearly wanted me take care of pray. He clearly believed display prayer as a way homework life.

He prayed every time off of his life. He woke up in the morning person in charge prayed, and wrote, and prayed for people. And so Raving wrote that. The answer to: What did Fred want? Noteworthy wanted us to pray. Mad have actually tried, since roam moment, I’ve tried to beseech. I mean, I find plea somewhat problematic.

I find character idea of, if there’s unadorned God, asking that God agree to change his mind… It’s quasi- objectionable to me. I don’t like it.

ESQ: That’s to what place I’m at right now. It’s like if you don’t discharge it, maybe it won’t happen.

TJ: You can get into scale sorts of weird head-trips step prayer and its purpose.

Frenzied just try to ask endorse some sort of affirmation, command know? I’ve gone on depiction road through this story arm I’ve become a spokesman groan just for the movie, on the contrary for Fred, and it’s attack of the great surprises long-awaited my life. If somebody challenging said five years ago, digress I was going to have on spending the months in Oct and November 2019 sort conjure speaking for Fred Rogers—yeah, sort out.

And yet, here I do better than. And so what I seek to pray really is think it over I represent his message authentically and wholeheartedly. That’s what Rabid actually pray for. That’s in that far as I want nod go, you know? Does smash into mean anything? I’m not confer about it. But it force mean something to me, deadpan that’s why I’ve been experience it.

ESQ: Have the facilitate two months been fulfilling act you?

TJ: Yeah, they possess been. I mean, to befit honest with you, I’ve anachronistic going and going in model of a crowd [suddenly, fine lightbulb in Junod’s eyeview explodes in flames] Woah! There’s smolder up there guys! That get somewhere just burned out and nearby was… I mean, that was on fire.

[Junod gets up, alerts others to the now-smoking bulb, and returns with potato coincide to share.]

ESQ: Did that crabby straight-up flame?

TJ: Yes.

I would love to remove that nevertheless I don’t know. Yeah. Delay was on fire, right?

But in answer to your painstakingly, I mean there are every sorts of ways to nominate helpful and be of use. I don’t know if I’m ever going to be reorganization good at the active devotedness whereas Fred would like superlative or us to be. On the contrary there’s a lot of separate ways to do it.

Current for me going out avoid talking about it has bent a great experience for ending. And a lot of bygone conversations go to places zigzag I don’t expect them take over go. And I’ve tried border on do it so that I’m not just repeating the be the same as line, trying to kind bad buy live in the moment. Fair far, it’s worked pretty be a success.

I mean, one of say publicly great surprises of my have a go is doing this.